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10 September 2011 @ 05:59 pm
Meta Month, Day 10: Age of Knighthood  
I thought of touching on Seth's age, but that seemed like beating a dead horse after the lengthy discussion of it on magvel. So instead et's go with a related topic.

Seth's age hinges on the fact that he was a squire ten years ago when Franz's father was killed. If FE reflects the real world (and yes, that's a huge 'if'), one becams a squire between the ages of twelve and fourteen. Wiki also has people becoming knights at twenty-one but clearly in FE they get knighted much earlier. How much earlier? Well what about Franz? As far as I can tell, he's a full knight, not a squire. Ten years ago, however, he was barely old enough to remember his father. What age would you put him at there? If we go at "six" it means you can be a knight by the time you're sixteen, which is awfully young.

Interestingly, if you go with the info in the supports, Kyle has been a knight longer than Seth. Seth was a squire ten years ago when Franz's father was killed; ten years ago, Kyle was attacked during a mission to Frelia and says that his attackers realized he was a knight. That puts Kyle at at least twenty-six.

To bo honest, I just think the script writers were sloppy about details, but to write fic sometimes you have to try to make sense of the senselessness, I guess. ;P
 
 
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saffiremoon21saffiremoon21 on September 10th, 2011 10:05 pm (UTC)
Maybe it's like an anime, where everyone is like, legit warriors at the age of 15 haha.
wolfraven80: FB: WHAT?wolfraven80 on September 10th, 2011 10:12 pm (UTC)
In anime you can be a warrior at like... twelve. Or less. :/

Edited at 2011-09-12 12:06 am (UTC)
crimsonmorgan: Seth is rescuing damselscrimsonmorgan on September 10th, 2011 10:24 pm (UTC)
Maybe we shouldn't forget the situation at hand; Franz mentions to Forde that he was knighted while Forde was at the front with Ephraim. To me that sounds more like an emergency-promotion (so that he could probably legally be sent out since he was recognized as "ready") than a perfectly normal promotion. Without the war he might have not become a knight then.

People were knighted before they were 21. The majority not, of course, but there are a few sources about men being knighted at 18ish. And one real exception who was knighted at 16 (was famous, but I forgot his name). It was not impossible; you just had to be good.
wolfraven80wolfraven80 on September 12th, 2011 02:01 am (UTC)
To me that sounds more like an emergency-promotion

That's a definite possibility. Franz does say though that he was finished his training so it seems like a bit of a toss up.
Mannahooves on September 10th, 2011 10:28 pm (UTC)
I usually go with skill playing into stuff.

AFAIK you could start training (like squire) around 8-10 years old. So by the time you were 18 you could be knighted. Now, I'm sure I read this in that book I've got about medieval castles or some such, but not Wikipedia. That is one thing I never thought to Wiki. :O

Buuut 16 is a bit early imo, though if he showed a lot of promise (and/or enough actual knights died in a skirmish) there might be shuffling of the ranks and promotions. But you can also assume there are other knights that are perhaps older than Franz, but less skilled.

Also, Forde already being up there (they are brothers, right?) could help. Family influence and all that jazz.
mark_asphodelmark_asphodel on September 11th, 2011 05:47 am (UTC)
Buuut 16 is a bit early imo,

Old enough to be a "general," though.
Mannahooves on September 11th, 2011 07:11 am (UTC)
Yeahhhh just gonna go with Samu here.

No matter how hard you try, you can't make it make sense.

Unless you change the ages of all the characters, which isn't necessarily a bad idea, but might get you mauled by the fandom. I've yet to try it, myself.
mark_asphodelmark_asphodel on September 11th, 2011 11:44 am (UTC)
Unless you change the ages of all the characters, which isn't necessarily a bad idea, but might get you mauled by the fandom.

Here's another thing-- just because we think something is improbable or breaks the rules of how we know a system is supposed to function doesn't mean it wasn't done, even in our world. There were a couple of teenaged Popes back in the day, you know? Now, from what I remember they were absolutely terrible Popes (epically bad), but it still was done.

but might get you mauled by the fandom

Aging up the Magvel cast, who mostly feel pretty "mature" and who have canon ages in a whopping two cases, is easy. Most Magvel writers have done it, in some fashion or another. OTOH, arbitrary making, say, Roy, nineteen at the outset of FE6? That just seems a bit off.
wolfraven80wolfraven80 on September 12th, 2011 12:54 am (UTC)
I guess part of the problem is that there seems to be a discordance between the character portraits and offical ages in some of the games. I mean Lyn? Fourteen? Really?

Since we have no canon ages in Magvel there's a lot more leeway except then we get the info in the supports that's a little tough to swallow sometimes. I basically just picked an age when I started and have stuck with that in my head, but it's interesting to hear what conclusions other people have come to.
Samuraitersamuraiter on September 11th, 2011 12:57 am (UTC)
I opted to give up trying to equate FE to anything genuinely medieval. To me, it makes more sense to go with the same "anime fantasy" base as, say, Record Of Lodoss War. It eliminates most of the head-scratching.

Therefore, by "anime fantasy" logic:

Why is Franz a Knight so young? No need to know. Just go with it.
mark_asphodelmark_asphodel on September 11th, 2011 05:46 am (UTC)
To me, it makes more sense to go with the same "anime fantasy" base as, say, Record Of Lodoss War.

This. In between the fourteen-year-old pegasus knights and the sixteen-year-old army commanders the games throw at us repeatedly, I think having sixteen-year-old cavaliers is just part of the territory.

I also agree the FE8 script is pretty sloppy. As is the NoA adaptation for FE7.
wolfraven80: Fire Emblem-- Lyn battlewolfraven80 on September 12th, 2011 01:48 am (UTC)
I didn't know anime had logic. So much of it makes next to no sense. ;)

For me what's most important is consistency within my own stories. Every one in a while though, that means I end up being out of synch with the info we get from the game, which does kind of bug me...
korsriddarekorsriddare on September 11th, 2011 12:05 pm (UTC)
That post looks familiar.

Also, yes, for the sake of writing fic, sometimes one just have to make sense of what is left in (or out).
wolfraven80: FE:TSS-- Seth quietwolfraven80 on September 12th, 2011 01:52 am (UTC)
It was a very thorough discussion. lol

Sometimes the details of the game do seem really inconsistent, which can be frustrating. For instance, the idea of Kyle being a knight longer than Seth is so counter-intuitive. It's just hard to figure what to do with details like that.